Rick Robinson Featured on Social Barbarians Podcast
Discover the latest trend in advertising as Rick Robinson from PJX Media shares insights on how OOH and Social Media are merging. Learn how brands can leverage this powerful combo in this Social Barbarians podcast episode.
March 27, 2023
Listen to the Social Barbarians podcast featuring our CEO, Rick Robinson, discussing how OOH and social media will continue to be intertwined and what the future of that relationship will hold. Learn how brands can leverage this powerful combo in this Social Barbarians podcast episode.
Hosted by Sean Halter and Steven M.
Rick Robinson, our CEO, joined co-hosts Sean Halter, Founder MiO Marketplace & Host "The CMO Suite” podcast and Steven Moy, CEO of Barbarian on their podcast, Social Barbarians. Discussions ranged from…
Why out-of-home advertising and social media are becoming increasingly intertwined, with out-of-home serving as a content provider for social and social channels using digital out-of-home as a new screen.
AND…How brands are still exploring the best ways to integrate social and out-of-home advertising and the potential use of AI to get everyone on the same page.
Summary | Rick Robinson Discussion on Social Barbarians Podcast
(1:11) - Rick discusses the interaction between social media and out-of-home advertising, with out-of-home being a content provider for social and social channels using digital out-of-home as a new screen
(3:51) - Steven asks about brands maximizing opportunities by integrating social and out-of-home, and Rick notes that brands are still figuring out how to master the journey and mix of social and out-of-home advertising
(7:27) - Rick discusses the increasing use of screens in various locations and the potential for targeting capabilities on place-based screens, as well as the merging of public wayfinding information
(11:10) - Rick discusses the slow adoption of interactive out-of-home experiences in North America and emphasizes the importance of delivering utility to consumers
(14:26) - Rick explains that Project X is an out-of-home agency that uses a planning tool called Adstruck to speed up the planning process and provide expertise to brands
(15:58) - Rick discusses various out of home advertising campaigns, including those for Glossier and Wendy's, and emphasizes the importance of contextual messaging
(18:07) - Sean notes that shareable campaigns have the most impact in social media
(20:33) - Steven asks about the impact of new disruptive platforms and technologies like TikTok and AI on out of home advertising, and Rick Robinson believes they will add to and enhance the relationship
Full Transcript | Rick Robinson Discussion on Social Barbarians Podcast
Announcer 0:13
You're listening to Social Barbarians, the podcast for brands and people conquering social media marketing. Presented by Mio marketplace connectivity, media strategy and barbarian. And now, here are your hosts, Sean Halter and Steven Moy.
Sean Halter 0:31
You are listening to Social Barbarians. This is your host, Sean Halter. With me, as always is my co host Steven Moy. As a reminder, social barbarians is presented in part by meal marketplace. We're excited to have as our guest on today's episode Rick Robinson. Rick is the chief executive officer over at Project X. They are an out of home specialist. We're going to talk a lot today about how traditional and social are continuing to blend out in the marketplace and how brands are really utilizing the strength of frequency across channels to really amplify their campaigns. So Rick, welcome to the show.
Rick Robinson 1:03
Thank you. Thank you for having me.
Sean Halter 1:05
Now Rick, you've been in that space, really the outdoor space for most of your career or certainly a pretty big part.
Rick Robinson 1:11
Actually, yes, all of it going back to 1986. Actually, I just dated myself.
Sean Halter 1:16
Listen, it's changed a lot since then, but in some ways it also hasn't changed. Just meaning when it comes to outdoor, no matter what technology is changing no matter what technology is even changing with outdoor, no matter how much our lives are changing, people are still in the cars, they're still driving around places. They're still looking around, they're still being inundated, in some cases with brands trying to grab their eyeballs at every opportunity they can get. What's been most interesting to me to see is how really social has kind of woven themselves into that platform. More specifically, and maybe in some cases more than many other forms in the traditional media space. What's your opinion on that?
Rick Robinson 1:58
Well, look, I think it's one of the unexpected outcomes, really, of the social media evolution. Out of home at its root has always been going back a century or more social by nature. It's out in the public space. You see it concurrently. It's a one to many experience. There's this public statement you're making when you put a sign up on a billboard that you're making a commitment, right, this is our position. We're standing by it. We're not moving. We've just printed and put this big sign up. And now that it's digital, it might be a little more fleeting, but still there's that same dynamic taking place. And so that's where we are. That's where we've always been, just terms of our presence in public space. And now what I see happening is and what we've seen for the last real decade actually, is this unexpected interaction between social and out of home, where out of home can be a content provider for social, where brands will do something really cool in the out of home space and use it really as b-roll for social. And that's the intent from the get go. More interestingly. The public just wanting to capture it, right? They're out in the field and they see something cool like they might see a great piece of architecture or landscape or a sunrise or a great billboard, right, and capture it and share it. And then lastly, what's been taking place is the social channels beginning to look at digital out of home in particular as the new screen, as a way to extend their messaging out into the public realm. That is fascinating thing that I think is what's next.
Sean Halter 3:30
Steven, what's your perspective on that? What do you feel like you're seeing out there again from a bit of an integration standpoint? And either how brands are maximizing those opportunities by using these digital screens that are in front of us all the time, or are there still missed opportunities out there that you feel like brands are not always thinking ahead enough to be able to take advantage of?
Steven Moy 3:51
Thank you. Yeah, it's a very interesting space. I still remember how Rick would know. I remember all the technological innovation changing out of home or the ecosystem interaction between brands depends on how your customer journey, even attending an event or going out of home. I remember at one point RFID was a thing not too long ago, RFID, and then they have like facial recognition. Remember a couple of years ago before COVID Now you have really like what you just commented, like social taking out upon becoming the new screen. Very interesting. This year, Son and I just came back from South X Southwest, for example. We're looking at so many different I felt like first part, we are culturally more acceptable to doing connecting social and out of home than before. Remember RFID, I think, Rick, you remember, right, 15-20 years ago. I don't want to be tracked. The social acceptance four square. Oh, you tell everybody who you are now you just with TikTok or Instagram, you're just fascinating all the pictures put together. And then when you yield the context of out of home. And I just felt like that's a lot of opportunity for a brand storyteller or a brand handling that whole event. Let's say you have a tempo event, it's out of home. How you connect all the ecosystem before, during and after is very important in my opinion, because you don't want to just get the traffic up and get all the attention and then drop off. So I'm curious, Rick, do you see a lot of brands working with you that understanding, like make sure we dial up social or any other communication before the out of home event. And during an out of home event, you encourage people tagging and all kinds of different tactics and post, do you see more people thinking about the whole journey? Like kind of like going to wedding, post wedding?
Rick Robinson 5:44
It's begun, I would say I think we're in the confusion prior to the clarity stage. We know that that journey exists. We know that that can be mastered. And at this point, we're trying to figure it out. What's interesting is we see a lot of brands, usually native brands, that made their way with social to create demand, and now they're seeing that model starting to rattle, right? It's not working like it used to, and it's becoming more expensive and less efficient. So they're saying, okay, now how can we connect with out of home? How can we make out of home part of our mix and understand how it works for us in the granular way? We've understood how social works. The measurement is different. It's one to many. You don't measure it down to the click and roast and CAC and all of those. We have different acronyms for measurement. And so understanding the fuel mix, how much of each and when, I think, is the discovery we're on right now. Certainly the interest is there.
Sean Halter 6:43
Rick the screens themselves have changed significantly, whether it's platform like cooler screens where literally the screens are built into the coolers themselves, or again, walking around downtown Austin and seeing a screen that's baked into the side of a building in a way that you're just not anticipating or expecting. Certainly in a city like New York where Steven and I are, they're always on the prowl to figure out a way to put potentially an ad opportunity in front of you with a digital screen. To some extent, whether they're bent screens or however those are, what are you seeing from a technology standpoint, again, that could continue to give social brands an opportunity to just reach consumers in places they just don't expect to be seen? Where does out of home fit into that?
Rick Robinson 7:27
Yeah, I think you're just going to see more screens and figuring out where it makes sense, where it's useful and has utility for the consumer. Yesterday, I just met with a group called ASM. They have all the entertainment venues across the country's, arenas and concert halls and things. They already have digital screens there, and now they're asking themselves, how can they coordinate that? So it's part inventory, which you'll just see more of in more places, and then it's also the pipes. How do we access it quickly? Imagine if a TikTok advertiser, when they place their ad, could immediately be on the digital screens that are place based across the country with a targeting capability on top of it. It's inevitable that will happen, that capability. You know what's also interesting too, just in terms of new screens, we just placed a campaign for Glossier, one of our clients, and they were on digital screens inside of New York subway cars. There typically was paper. Now they're screened. So that's super exciting because the storytelling that can happen is unique, and you've got this captive dwell time audience and so it's going to be exciting for the public because they'll see more and more screens. Also, the other thing that will happen is that the use of the screen will go beyond just advertising. It'll be a merger of public wayfinding information, public safety, art, advertising. It'll just be the screen collectively where I get all my news and information, including commerce.
Sean Halter 8:50
Steven, you've seen that in many cases. Again, walking around the city, there's several boards at TikTok often will kind of grab, and they're basically posting live feeds directly from TikTok, whether that's from a brand or a commerce opportunity. So from your perspective, same kind of question. Where do you feel like there's opportunities that social is taking advantage of right now? And where do you feel like there's situations where they're just not thinking far ahead enough?
Steven Moy 9:15
Great question. I've seen a lot of different attempts, right. As I mentioned, bad all the way back to RFID two facial recognition. Remember Alibaba scanning your face, everybody's Minority Report, they try to understand your gender bias too. I also see Google invested into a company in Hudson Yard called Intersection. They are the one replacing all the phone booth in New York City. And then they have the power even inside some airport and train station you can imagine. To Rick's point, I think there's a lot of opportunity providing digital wayfinding. Right. And even when they waiting for the train, maybe inside the train, they can do commerce too. Why not? Special glossier. I forgot to buy something. The moisturizer. I can imagine even being buying grocery. Right. A lot of things when you're doing idle. I just felt like no leader yet. Rick's point, it just seems like we're scratching the surface. It's like a one off campaign, not a connected ecosystem, if you will. Because, for example, a long time so rake on me and advertising for a long time, and I still remember one piece of what shocked me doing about ten years ago in Seoul, Korea. Bear with me. A grocery company try to compete with a Walmart equipment, right? They said, I don't have enough distribution. I don't have enough media to buy. What should I do exactly? To your point?
Sean Halter 10:38
Right.
Steven Moy 10:38
You know what they do? They outfit a certain major train station while you're waiting.
Rick Robinson 10:42
I recall that campaign. Yeah, right.
Steven Moy 10:45
They basically look like a digital, like a grocery shop. And then you just scan your kilo and we, oh, I forgot Apple. Let me put it in the shopping cart. Let me find more milk. My wife yelling at me, let me get a cup of champagne. That was such a huge success, not only from a campaign, but also driving awareness and commerce. They buy by the time they go home, deliver. I just felt like we have not seen that kind of in North America. At least I haven't seen it.
Rick Robinson 11:10
No, you're right about that. The adoption of people in North America to just interact right with their phone and the out of home and see that engagement as normal was slower on the uptake. I do think, however, that the public is learning. For example, if you go into Times Square, it's not unusual for there to be some sort of AR VR QR, all the R's, some experience. You can use your phone and that digital screen. People also recognize if they see a QR on any piece of out of home or anywhere. Now this is a post COVID outcome that there's something there that's potentially valuable for them, that's relative to the message or relative to the context. So the public is coming and the brands are coming to them. But you know what it always boils back to is that whatever is posed, whatever message shows up, needs to have utility. It's got to deliver time, fun, money, something, or I'm not going to bother.
Sean Halter 12:07
It still has to be a good idea. It doesn't matter how great the screen is. If it's not a good idea, you're not buying it.
Rick Robinson 12:13
It goes back to the beginning. We've got to reward people for their attention.
Steven Moy 12:17
Totally. Now, I'm curious, Rick Ray, you see all of a sudden, very silently pushing all the big tech company glasses again, right? The second generation Google Glass. The Ray band with Facebook.
Sean Halter 12:29
I don't even know if those glasses are real, Steven. I don't know if your glasses are real. I swear to God, I think they're a prop.
Steven Moy 12:35
Do you see that kind of opportunity when you brought up AR VR? I remember at one point we're talking about, especially now, Snap talking, they claim they have like how many 250,000,000 active user billing use? Do you see that kind of a VR application? I see from the phone. That makes sense. We all carry a phone. But also I saw some ad about the new glasses coming already walked down to the farm and I don't know.
Rick Robinson 13:00
I guess if everybody's wearing the glasses, then you would find a way to make that connection. In general, though, the special experiences, those special engagements, AR VR, et cetera, are still one offs. They require some investment to do. It requires extra dwell time. And from what I've seen creatively, they're interesting, they're fun. I don't need to do it again the next day. Right. It's still a little novelty in my view, from what I've seen. Win some awards.
Sean Halter 13:32
It's cool.
Rick Robinson 13:34
Now people will grab the image and share it because it was surprising, especially if it's a new experience where somebody hasn't had that experience before. They're like, oh my God, I've never seen this. Wow.
Sean Halter 13:46
I feel like one of the things you said earlier that kind of relates to that is this QR code thing. I mean, COVID really, in my opinion, saved the QR code. We've been out there in the US. Then it's kind of dead. Nobody's really kind of using it and then suddenly everybody's like, does have a QR code. Hell, we just made T shirts for one of my companies, and we got the damn QR code right on the back of it. Listen, Rick, I want to make sure we get to spend a little bit of time actually on Project X itself. This is again Rick Robinson, chief executive officer of our project X. Talk to us about that because you guys are not a traditional out of home company. It's not that you own all of this inventory. You're kind of an aggregator in that space, am I correct?
Rick Robinson 14:26
We're an out of home agency, so we plan and buy out of home. I mean, our job is to paint the portrait of your brand in the public space, and we do that with our platform. We have a planning tool that was first in the market ten years ago that's outstanding. Called ADstruc. All of the inventory is in it. There's all kinds of audience overlays. So it dramatically speeds up the planning process. It used to be and still is for many folks, very mechanical and slow and manual. And it just gives our teams more time to think strategically and solve problems. And so brands come to us because they want that expertise, they have bandwidth issues, they want speed, they want to be able to pivot on it. But really they just want to figure out how to do out of home. Well, because it's one thing to go by an audience and get a report on. Have all the cells filled on in your Excel chart. Hey, I've delivered all these impressions. But as you know, out of home is so contextual, and it's this Rubik's Cube of different formats that behave differently in different markets in different combinations. And so the requirement for tribal knowledge runs deep. It's kind of like being a day trader. You don't dabble in that. Either you're all the way in and you're a geek about it or you're not. That's where we live. Fueled by awesome technology. Steven?
Steven Moy 15:38
Yeah, perfect. I'm curious, in your space, what brand have done right? Just curious. You can take a fifth, but I'm just curious. Can't be someone out there. When I work with director consumer brand, everybody referenced Nike, right?
Rick Robinson 15:58
Sure. And they have done right for a long time. And there's the epic brands. Apple has turned out of home media big landmark locations into really a collection of unparalleled real estate. And they do monument type messaging. It's not launch related necessarily. There's not a lot of explanation. It's exclamation essentially with these beautiful visuals. So there's several brands like that. And then you can get into the direct to consumer brands, which are very quick to understand how out of home can just make them feel real. Right. Make them feel put wind at the back of the brand. So it's making a statement in public space, and it's amplifying everything else they're doing. We have a campaign up right now for one of our brands, Glossier in New York that's on multiple formats, train stations, putting stickers on the wall, which is part of the sticker campaign they do surrounding a new store opening. So it's a mix of reach, frequency, location, proximity, multiple formats, digital, printed, putting all the tactics together and making it work. But there's a campaign that was an OBIE finalist that I found very powerful. It was that show Wednesday, which I think is from Netflix, is that right?
Steven Moy 17:10
Oh, yeah, Wednesday, yeah.
Rick Robinson 17:14
I just have to give props to it because they had all of this very contextual messaging. For example, one of them was a coffee cup, and it was branded, and it said something to the effect of we like our coffee black, like our soul. And then there was messaging at the train stations about the timeliness of waiting for your next train. And everywhere they put a message, it related to the context it was around. So when you can make the context a part of the creative elements in the layout, I think that becomes very relevant. The public likes the thoughtfulness of that, and they respond to it well. There was also a campaign from Wendy's last year that's also an OBIE finalist where it shows a french fry that's sagging, and it basically says, our fries don't arch, and it's right next to a McDonald's.
Sean Halter 18:07
It is the shareable campaigns that make the most impact. Again, to your point, is it shareable? Would I stand in front of this board and take a picture and share it across my social media platform? And if it's clever enough or smart enough or interesting enough, those are typically the ones that are going to kind of stand out from the rest. I want to dovetail off of what Steven just asked you for just a moment, if I can. We like to do this thing called Party of Four. Basically, dinner party. You go to the dinner party, steven picks up the check, which I used to say on this podcast, which almost never happens. And then we were just at South X Southwest, and he said, I'll pick up the check. I was almost floored. I ordered dessert to go. I don't know if he saw that on there or not, but you're at a dinner party. It's you. It's Steven. You get to bring three other people. You're going to talk about social in general. They can be alive, they can be dead, they can be political, they can be in the industry. Who would you invite to this dinner where you feel like you could have a really lively conversation around social media?
Rick Robinson 19:07
Oh, my gosh, you got me on the spot here. I'd want to invite David Shingy.
Sean Halter 19:14
I don't know who that is. Who's?
Rick Robinson 19:15
David Shingy, the social digital guru. Shingy S-H-I-N-G-Y david Shing. I'd want him there. Brilliant guy and very provocative. I'd want somebody from history, like Mark Twain.
Steven Moy 19:32
Oh, wow. Good choice.
Rick Robinson 19:34
Yes, right, because he was like I mean, sound bites, edible content. Can you imagine Mark Twain with Twitter?
Sean Halter 19:42
He'd be the George Carlin of this generation, probably.
Rick Robinson 19:46
And then somebody who thinks big all the time, like Neil Degrasse. Is that his name? The science guy? Yeah, I think that would be it. So two of the three would have nothing to do with advertising. I like it and I think that would make it interesting. And then Shingy there just to challenge us constantly. Yeah. Shingy Twain and Neil. That would be the party.
Sean Halter 20:09
I'm going to have to look Shingy up. You've stumped me. Now. Listen, we've got time for one more question. Steven, we're going to leave it with you again. Rick Robinson, thank you so much for joining us on this episode of Social Barbarians. Rick is the chief executive officer over Project X. Thank you for joining us, Steven.
Steven Moy 20:23
Last question, my last question. Everywhere we go, myself with my clients or events, talking to Sean or our guests, two things keep coming up. I'm just curious what you thought in relation to what you do generally. Tape AI chat CPT today. All these AI components and then TikTok. I mean, everyone, every category we have guessed, from mortgage to CPT to skin care to TikTok is on the planning. It's part of the strategic element. And all of a sudden, before we even get into fully embracing TikTok, like two months ago, generative AI, everybody have their GPT. Now everybody talking about users always, right. TikTok got the whole TikTok for business launch and then Generative AI. What's your take? What these new disruptive platform and technology coming into the state? How they disrupt or will it disrupt your space, like out of home advertising?
Rick Robinson 21:22
Well, I'll start with the second one first. I think TikTok and all social is just going to add to out of home. We're figuring it out. The relationship will continue to grow and blossom, either with the digital screens as a messenger of social content and just an extension of the screens or the relationship, how one amplifies the other and how they interact together. I think from a media planning point of view and a creative point of view and a comms strategy point of view, we'll continue to figure all of that out. So that's a growth component with the language tools, ChatGPT and all the others, they say, oh, it's spooky, it's scary. And I think we're spooky and scary, meaning humans, we're the ones asking the questions, we get to write the script. And so the real skill is going to be who asks the best questions and also understanding what source of data those tools are pulling from, because they're coming from a pool of information that is definable in some sense. How is that going to happen with screens in public spaces with out of home media? And what we do god, I don't know. I do know this. Humans are visual. They're out of their house, and when they're out of the house, they're visually alert and they're looking around, and you can go all the way back to the Obelisk. And there's some sort of communication between humans collectively, concurrently in public space and visual messaging and will exist somehow. It'll manifest parallel with whatever technology is happening at the time.
Sean Halter 22:45
You know who does know? It's probably ChatGPT. We won't even need to do this podcast next season. They'll just ask the questions. They'll tell Steven and I how to answer these questions. When I say to my kids, gosh, how Minority Report is this? They don't even know what the fuck I'm talking about. And yet it's all of that, all almost in real time.
